Why are there double sharps

Create a free Team What is Teams? Learn more. Purpose of double-sharps and double-flats? Ask Question. Asked 10 years, 6 months ago. Active 1 year, 7 months ago. Viewed 70k times. In a few pieces of music I have read through, I have come across double-sharps and flats. Improve this question.

Ian Cordle Ian Cordle 1, 1 1 gold badge 8 8 silver badges 5 5 bronze badges. AFAIR its mainly a formal notation issue. You can augment notes in the scale, so if F is a note in the scale, but G is not say in the scale of A-major. But that is just my recollection - which is why this is a comment. Just off the top of my head, I know that I have encountered them in Bach and Beethoven at the very least.

Noldorin : See the first movement of Moonlight Sonata from Beethoven ; there is 2 or 3 double-sharps there. PatrickDaSilva: I already accepted they exist if you read up. Now too many, but from time to time Noldorin : I was just giving you an explicit example ; I came across double sharps and asked a question here myself about them, this is why I found this question. Show 4 more comments. Active Oldest Votes. Improve this answer. For example: In the G harmonic minor scale, what's the seventh note?

And it has to be a half-step below G. So it must be an F. G-A in F major. RosieF but the idea that any pitch has a fixed frequency in just intonation is false.

In just intonation based on C, F sharp and G flat have different frequencies, but F sharp has different frequencies depending on whether its the third of a D major chord or the fifth of a B chord whether major or minor. Add a comment. Mark Lutton Mark Lutton 8, 21 21 silver badges 36 36 bronze badges.

Yes, that's where the analogy breaks down. If they sound different to you because one is in a major chord and the other is in a minor chord but they mean the same because they are played on the same key, they are synonyms. Off topic: I'm a Zappa fan too. I'm a Zappa fan, but I have some doubts.

Recently listening to composers like Stravinsky and Schoenberg and I'm questioning Zappa. IMO he was often more interested in shock value than pure musical expression he did have to make a living.

Some of his alumni have said as much. Stinkfoot - there will be cases, such as played on continuously variable pitch instruments such as violins, where B and C are not the same note or played at the same pitch. Stinkfoot "Here" and "hear" are homo phones , no? I think the analogy is spot on: same sound, different spelling. Not really so with enharmonics - C and Db have exactly the same value on the piano.

But you could quibble and say that C and Db are also entirely different values - they come from different scales and function differently. I wouldn't entirely object to that argument either Show 2 more comments. The flat or sharp symbols not yet considering double-sharps and double-flats, we'll get to that are used for two purposes: to indicate how the diatonic notes of a key different from the notes in the key of C to indicate how chromatic notes differ from the diatonic notes It's in the latter case you encounter double-sharps and double-flats.

Community Bot 1. James Tauber James Tauber 3, 1 1 gold badge 17 17 silver badges 25 25 bronze badges. Edgar Gonzalez Edgar Gonzalez 2, 2 2 gold badges 18 18 silver badges 23 23 bronze badges. The G major example is why most musicians prefer to plan in flat keys. Less to think about even though the notes are enharmonic.

I always understood that it was to help wind players cope with key transitions in complex pieces - stay with the flats when the previous section was in a flat key, or stay with the sharps and add one etc. I'm not sure I can get on board with your last point -- the amount of ink in a double flat is the same as two accidentals, so those examples would be equivalent.

Besides, ink is NOT that expensive. We would still write the second way because it is easier to read, however -- that's the reason. Actually, it would save ink to write it as G, G , A, G , which only has one accidental. As NReilingh points out, that can't possibly be the reason. Chris Strong Chris Strong 21 1 1 bronze badge.

For instance, the key of G minor. Trying to represent it as a natural G would be notationally awkward as well as confusing. Sign in. Forgot your password? Get help. Create an account. Password recovery. Learn Jazz Standards. Learning Jazz Jazz Theory. By Camden Hughes. February 8, For instance: Db major 5 flats vs. C major 7 sharps F major 6 sharps vs. Gb major 6 flats B major 5 sharps vs. Cb major 7 flats Want something a little more theoretical and less practical?

For instance, why did I write out G dim7 and not Abdim7? G A Because you need to raise the seventh scale degree, a harmonic minor scale is a great place to find a double sharp if the seventh was a sharp to begin with. So, what was the strangest chord I encountered when writing out the 7th chords? Does Cbdim7 exist? F G The piece modulates elsewhere, also. It builds a chord from the leading tone in this case Cb , but it lowers the 7th of the chord by a half-step: Cb Ebb Gbb Bbbb.

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